Reddit’s unpopular determination to revise its API pricing in a transfer that’s forcing third-party apps out of enterprise has taken a bizarre flip. In an AMA hosted in the present day by Reddit co-founder and CEO Steve Huffman, aka u/spez on the web discussion board web site, the exec doubled down on accusations in opposition to the developer behind the favored third-party app Apollo, which the corporate had beforehand accused of working inefficiently and never being “API” consumer.

Regardless of group backlash — which incorporates a site-wide protest from 1000’s of communities often known as subreddits — Huffman’s AMA confirmed the corporate has no plans to revise its coming API modifications. What’s extra, Huffman continued his accusations in opposition to Apollo, calling out the developer, Christian Selig’s, “conduct and communications” as being “all over” and saying he couldn’t see Reddit working with the developer additional.

Selig had been among the many first to spotlight that Reddit’s new API pricing would successfully make it unattainable to proceed to function the Apollo app. He defined that, underneath the brand new phrases, it could price him $20 million per 12 months to take action — cash the app doesn’t make. This week, Selig introduced the app’s final day could be June 30, forward of the July 1 implementation of the brand new API pricing.

Different third-party apps are additionally closing down, together with Sync, RIF and Reddplant, to call just a few.

However Huffman seemingly has an ax to grind with Selig particularly, first accusing the developer of extortion, per Selig’s intensive put up on the state of affairs between himself and Reddit.

In keeping with Selig’s interpretation of the state of affairs, he raised the query as to why Reddit was selecting to vary its API phrases to place third-party apps out of enterprise somewhat than simply shopping for them out, as the corporate did with Alien Blue (an older Reddit shopper that it acquired in 2014). He mentioned that if Apollo was costing Reddit $20 million per 12 months, Reddit ought to reduce him a examine to place an finish to the app. The comment doesn’t sound like a critical ask from his telling. In reality, he clarified on the decision, “…that is principally a joke.”

If something, it comes throughout as a method of making an attempt to know why the corporate would make a transfer that’s positive to generate unwell will amongst its wider group. (Because it has.)

A Reddit consultant on a name with Selig, nevertheless, first seemingly interpreted his remark as a “menace,” Selig mentioned. However on the decision, they cleared up the misunderstanding and the contact apologized. Selig got here with receipts — he recorded the decision (which is authorized the place he’s based mostly in Canada).

However in a subsequent name with moderators, Huffman referred to this dialog as Selig “threatening” Reddit.

That stance hasn’t softened on Reddit’s aspect, Huffman made clear in the present day.

Within the AMA, one consumer requested Huffman to make clear, “what had been you pondering along with your try to discredit Apollo by claiming that Christian threatened and blackmailed you?”

The response was shocking. Not like most corporations, which attempt to soften their blows behind company PR communicate, Huffman answered somewhat plainly.

“His ‘joke’ is the least of our points,” the CEO wrote. “His conduct and communications with us has been all over—saying one factor to us whereas saying one thing utterly totally different externally; recording and leaking a non-public telephone name—to the purpose the place I don’t understand how we might do enterprise with him.”

It’s an odd flip of occasions for Apollo, whose iOS-first and user-friendly design simply this week noticed it featured throughout Apple’s Worldwide Developer Convention, forward of Reddit’s API coverage change that may now put it out of enterprise.

Different outstanding builders have come out in help of Selig following this debacle.

Halide co-founder Sebastiaan de With tweeted on Thursday calling Selig “one of many nicest guys in our indie app world,” and mentioned Reddit administration was mendacity, slandering, and vilifying him. Others quote-tweeted and agreed.

Except Reddit’s board chooses to intervene, it doesn’t appear that Huffman is anxious a lot in regards to the fallout from these selections, site-wide protest or not.

Within the AMA, he fended off plenty of questions, politely phrased and never, from customers upset over the API modifications. These ranged from these questioning the mannequin (why not a profit-sharing mannequin like Epic does with Unreal?) and asking in regards to the compressed timeframe to broader questions on Reddit’s shift to being extra about income than group engagement. (“We’ll proceed to be profit-driven till income arrive,” the CEO replied. “Not like among the 3P apps, we’re not worthwhile.”)

“Some apps, like Apollo, Reddit is Enjoyable and Sync have determined this [API] pricing doesn’t work for his or her companies and can shut earlier than pricing goes into impact,” Huffman defined. “For the opposite apps, we’ll proceed speaking. We acknowledge that the timeline we gave was tight; we’re pleased to have interaction with people who wish to work with us.”

Within the feedback, although, ReddPlanet’s developer (u/lupeski, aka Tony Lupeski) mentioned “it is a blatant lie,” noting that he had tried a number of occasions to get involved with Reddit relating to these modifications and had been ignored. One other indie app developer mentioned that they had stuffed out a request for Enterprise API entry thrice and had obtained no response.

As for the remainder of the AMA, there’s little extra to report past what Reddit had already shared. The corporate is seemingly unmoved by the group backlash over its API modifications and has no intention to delay or rethink. It should nonetheless keep its carve-out for a handful of accessibility-focused apps, as said.

Huffman additionally clarified that whereas The NYT piece positioned the API pricing modifications as a approach to restrict entry to its boards, which have grow to be a coaching floor for giant language fashions (LLMs), that’s not the one purpose behind this transfer. The corporate can also be spending “tens of hundreds of thousands of {dollars}” per 12 months to help the third-party app ecosystem, and that wanted to be reigned in. (And it’s in “lively dialogue” with corporations utilizing Reddit as coaching information for his or her AIs).

The exec moreover famous that entry to mature content material will probably be restricted through its Knowledge API as of July 5, 2023, as a part of a broader effort to supply further guardrails underneath a “stricter” regulatory setting, however specific content material was nonetheless being allowed.

An outline of the AMA in a extra readable format is out there on r/Save3rdPartyApps, a group that sprung up for the reason that API modifications had been introduced. The discussion board now has over 50,000 members.